BRITTANY LUSE, HOST:
To you, what is the point of a dinner party today? Garrett, we’ll start with you on this question.
GARRETT SCHLICHTE: It’s about gossip, which is, like, something that I really believe in as, like, a delicious and important social norm. I think it’s, like, less about, like, impressing the boss, and it’s more about, like, what’s going on with Jessica? You know what I mean? Like, what’s happening?
LUSE: (Laughter).
SCHLICHTE: Like, we need to figure some things out, and we need to talk.
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LUSE: Hello, hello. I’m Brittany Luse, and you’re listening to IT’S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR – a show about what’s going on in culture and why it doesn’t happen by accident.
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LUSE: I love that. That’s such a good motivator. Honestly, gossip is, like – I always say that I have many reasons to want to live in this world. But one of the top reasons I want to live a long life is to live long enough to have all of my gossip questions answered.
SCHLICHTE: I love gossip. I believe in it in a positive way. I – you know, it’s not malicious. Sometimes you have to talk. And I think that’s where, like, for me…
LUSE: Yeah.
SCHLICHTE: …It happens.
LUSE: But what about you? What about you, Carly? What do you think? Like, what do you think the point of a dinner party is today?
CARLY OLSON: You know, I’ve always loved hosting, and I think there’s something appealing about creating a party in your own space. It’s totally of your own design, and there’s something cozy and lovely about having your friends over in your space, eating food that you prepared or at least chose for them. And maybe it’s a place for friends to be brought together for the first time. It’s really about the socializing. I love a dinner party.
LUSE: Today, we’re talking about dinner parties. But real quick, I want to take us to the dinner parties of yore.
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LUSE: It’s mid-century America. It’s promotion season. You are prepared. Weeks ago, you picked a gorgeous Serveware set from the Sears catalog and perfected your favorite back-of-the-box casserole recipe.
(BELL RINGING)
LUSE: Your home is spotless, and in your dining room, each utensil, plate and glass is identical. You are finally ready to host the boss and his wife for a dinner party.
SCHLICHTE: I think the hallmark was like, we’ve impressed the boss. We got the promotion we got, or we have kind of, like, shown off a little bit. I got the new washer-dryer that my – I wanted my husband to get me, and I got to show Betty-Sue down the street that, like, I – you know what I mean? It was like a status symbol. It was a little bit of a way to, like, keep up with the Joneses.
LUSE: That’s professional chef and writer Garrett Schlichte.
SCHLICHTE: I think now, it’s like everybody had a good time. Everybody had some good food. They got a little drunk. We got to talk and, like, sit down. You know, like, I also love going out, but, like, you just get to relax. In a home, you have this kind of sense of fullness and, like, friendship in life with other people. And you heard a little bit of gossip. I’m going to keep saying that. I think that that is just like…
(LAUGHTER)
LUSE: I will say the last dinner party I went to, I heard incredible, (laughter) unspeakable gossip.
SCHLICHTE: (Laughter).
LUSE: Now, I love a formal dining experience just as much as the next person, but there are a couple of reasons why that specific type of middle-class marker just isn’t as attainable today. For starters, the dining room is becoming a thing of the past. According to Axios, nearly 80% of designers working on new home communities said dining rooms became less important over the past year.
OLSON: You know, the average home coming into 1960 was about 1,500 square feet, and now it’s over 2,400 square feet.
LUSE: That’s Carly Olson, freelance architecture design and business journalist.
OLSON: So it’s not that our homes are getting smaller and we don’t have dining spaces anymore. It’s more that the floor plans are changing. You know, an open floor plan where the living room is bleeding into the dining room, bleeding into the kitchen, that is more of the norm.
LUSE: Now, if you’re like me, you like to host. But whether it’s anxiety about your living space or the quality of your food, there’s some kind of block keeping you from tapping into your inner Martha Stewart. So today, Carly and Garrett are going to help me outline the culture of a modern dinner party and how you can make it work in whatever living space you have.
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LUSE: Carly, what are the bigger historical changes in our living spaces that are affecting the lack of formal dining rooms that we’re seeing?
OLSON: Yeah, I think one thing that I always think about is that we just have a lot more stuff than we used to.
LUSE: Yeah, I’m looking around very guiltily at my desk set up right now, and, like…
SCHLICHTE: (Laughter).
LUSE: …The fact that I’m surrounded by piles of books that you all cannot see. But, yes.
OLSON: Well, I think it just goes to show how people want to use their space differently or maybe need to use their space differently because they have more things in the space. I think working from home is also part of that. Do you really want a formal dining room that’s not touched a lot of the time when you need an office at home?
LUSE: That’s actually very real.
OLSON: I think people feel like their homes are for them and for their families, and less about the guests that come maybe a few times a year. I think people are orienting their spaces more around their day-to-day needs than those occasions. And it wasn’t like people used to have a dinner party every day 50 years ago…
LUSE: Yeah.
OLSON: But they clearly thought it was important enough to maintain a separate space that would accommodate those moments when they arrived. And now I think we’re more focused on the day-to-day living experience. Like, you see bathrooms are becoming so lux because people want to, like, wind down at the end of a long day, or they really prioritize that getting ready space because they’re using it every day. And that’s for them. That’s a private kind of domain. So I think people are focusing more on themselves and what they need.
LUSE: It lines up with a very similar kind of cultural shifts that has come up in a lot of other different conversations on this show around people thinking less about creating community and more about how to get through their own individual daily lives. Which, I mean, I don’t necessarily have a judgment on either of those things because I think that, like, daily life is very hard in many ways.
And so it doesn’t surprise me that people might be looking for solutions to make it easier.
OLSON: Yeah. I completely agree with that.
LUSE: But it sounds like that also might be reflecting a little bit of the isolation and loneliness that we’re seeing statistically among Americans, specifically, feeling lonelier and sometimes it can feel like, oh, well, the solution is that I should get more sleep and so that I should have a nicer bath tub so I can take a bath, when actually, like, I don’t know.
Maybe the solution is maybe a couple nights a week you have a friend over and have a cup of coffee or to watch “Housewives” or something like that. Yeah, it’s interesting the kind of thing that it sounds like people might be trying to solve for in thinking about how to set up their homes now.
OLSON: I don’t know if this is that useful to say, but this summer, I felt like I had a month where I was kind of in a funk and I had two friends over and cooked dinner for them, and I swear that changed my entire week. And I just made a simple summer pasta with fresh vegetables, roasted it and threw some pasta on there and made a really easy salad, had a bottle of wine already in my fridge, opened that up, and it changed the trajectory of my entire week just having a couple friends in my space.
It’s a good reminder that, like, just simple gatherings, if they feel like you can, you know, be yourself. You’re in a space that feels comfortable for you and you’re having a necessary social interaction. I think we need more of that and maybe that’s what hanging out is. It’s just casually being yourself around people that care about you.
LUSE: When I got – when I first moved in here, the walls were, like, a high gloss white. It was giving “Girl, Interrupted.”
SCHLICHTE: (Laughter).
LUSE: It was very institutional. Angelina Jolie, I expected her to come crawling by at any point in time because it looked that wild in here.
SCHLICHTE: (Laughter).
LUSE: And I felt judged. And I think that, you know, whether it was on Zoom or FaceTime or whatever, seeing into each other’s homes felt like perhaps maybe an extension of the way that social media has made us view our homes and living spaces kind of in a different way. I wonder if either of you have heard anything or encountered or even experienced yourself, like, feelings of self-consciousness around one’s home and kind of like, OK, you know, is this good enough?
Like, what message am I sending? Can I have people over? Like, I don’t know. I’m wondering, is that something that you all had seen or experienced?
OLSON: Definitely. No exaggeration. I changed my office to look better on Zoom for a job. I painted my walls.
LUSE: Wow.
OLSON: I put a shelf in the background. I styled the shelf. Like, that is very real that we are changing the way our spaces look now that people are looking into them more. And I think that hosting anxiety can feel similar. Like, we are seeing beautiful things all the time so easily through our phones, through social media, and I think it’s natural that people feel the pressure.
Like, this is what a dinner party looks like. My house doesn’t look like that. Do I really want to let people into my home? I completely understand that anxiety and I think that social media is making that more prevalent.
LUSE: I see you nodding, Garrett.
SCHLICHTE: My biggest gripe with, like, all of kind of modern entertaining and, like, what every cookbook these days is called is, like, it’s simple and easy. Like, casual fun, you could do it with your eyes closed and it’s, like, nobody can. Like, it is actually very hard.
LUSE: No. I have a nervous breakdown every time I host people.
SCHLICHTE: Because we are consuming everything in, like, little 30-second clips or, like, whatever. It’s, like, I just threw this together. We’re just seeing this short bit of content and then it’s suddenly this gorgeous dinner party. And then when it takes you $250 and all day and then the cleanup the next day, it’s, like, who the – who has time for it? I can’t be – you know what I mean? It’s, like…
LUSE: Yeah.
SCHLICHTE: …Not the way the world actually works.
OLSON: I think I’ve heard a lot of friends feel like their own places are not up to par. And I’ve also written some design stories where the homeowners redecorated in service of having these entertaining experiences that they wanted to have. Like, that was top of mind as they’re redecorating. They’re, like, I picture having a party like this. How can I decorate my space to accommodate that experience?
SCHLICHTE: If you have paper plates, that’s fine. You know what I mean?
LUSE: (Laughter).
SCHLICHTE: Like, the food is going to be the food and once again, the gossip is going to be the gossip…
LUSE: Yeah.
SCHLICHTE: …Whether you’re eating off antique china plates or you know, Chinet cardboard. You know what I mean? Like, it’s just…
OLSON: Yeah.
SCHLICHTE: …I think it’s worth it. I think that I, personally, believe that it is worthwhile to be inconvenienced to have community. I think that’s, like, part of what it is. I think, like, building friendships is not easy. It takes time. Dinner parties are the same way. And I wish we could get more of that in the conversation.
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LUSE: Coming up…
SCHLICHTE: There is something, like, psychological about being, like, somebody else was taking care of me tonight. Like, someone else was, like, doing a little something for me.
LUSE: Stay with us.
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LUSE: What is something that you’ve seen people do, Carly, in their homes to create a memorable experience for their guests?
OLSON: Yeah. If you have the space, it’s always such a cool experience when the dinner party has multiple locations throughout the night. Like maybe you come over and you get appetizers out on the deck. It’s casual, the sun is setting.
SCHLICHTE: I also have a supper club called Virgo Supper Club, and, like, we kind of do that same kind of flow, which is, like, when people come over to your house, have a little welcome cocktail and have a little, like, bite out, and that can be on a budget. That can be, you know, a couple bottles of, like, cheaper wine and, like, some olives and some cheese, and people, like, love to be greeted by something. I think it, like, makes them feel really at home.
OLSON: And then when it’s time, you migrate inside. Sit down around the table, have your formal dinner. And then when it’s time for – when the tea is getting spilled, when it’s time for some more gossip…
LUSE: (Laughter).
OLSON: …You go over to the living room. You have a little dessert plate. You’re sitting around the fire. Like, there’s multiple moments throughout the evening, and it really makes it feel like an event. And that’s something that I think is so cool.
SCHLICHTE: Personally, I love to still be cooking while people are over. I think that, like, brings the stress way down. I think, like, everybody kind of wants to be part of it. You know what I mean? Like, not doing stressful cooking, but, like, if I’ve still got something on the stove, the house smells great. If there’s something still in the oven, it, like, allows people to be a little more casual, and I think that, like, that really takes the pressure off, whether that is, like, a leg of lamb or, like, you know, a pork butt. Like, I think that there are multiple ways to kind of do the high low of that. But then, like, yeah, have desserts and cocktails afterwards, you know?
LUSE: Oh, my gosh, y’all making me feel so inspired.
(LAUGHTER)
LUSE: And what about for the Maxxinistas?
OLSON: Yeah, we can’t forget the Maxxinistas. I think that having fresh flowers and putting out, like, all your table linens and napkins and kind of bringing your personal aesthetic into the dinner party is something that makes a party feel really personal and really beautiful. It doesn’t have to be expensive. You can go to Trader Joe’s, pick out the fresh flowers, put them in little bud vases. But something that, like, is a little bit more colorful, a little eclectic, that can make the aesthetic of the party really charming and really lovely.
LUSE: I’ve not even thought about that, bringing your own personal aesthetic into it. That sounds, first of all, very chic, achievable, but also, like, very different than, like, having a theme. I think a lot of people think about a theme. When they’re thinking about a party, they’re like, oh, we got to figure out and stick to a theme. But I like that. Bringing in some of you, some of your aesthetic so that people feel like this is something, like, very uniquely you and they’re having, like, an experience within your home. I love that. I don’t know, I think even if you have, you know, the fab apartment with the nice kitchen and the good views, I think, like, you know, the things I think that give people like, anxiety about hosting are, like, the whole cooking and cleaning and making things look nice thing.
Like, maybe you can’t cook or you don’t have the time to, you know, deep clean or try to get enough stemware or whatever, or maybe you don’t have any desire to cook for anybody – maybe. So I wonder, what is the argument, though, for an at-home dinner party versus, you know, a good old trip to Applebee’s with the girls? Like, what’s the argument for having people over and staying in and, like, gathering in that way, as opposed to just going to a restaurant, which, I mean, it seems like a lot of us are very eager to do.
SCHLICHTE: I mean, I think that it’s really where, like, you build family, you know. I think it’s really – like, I have never – I’ve eaten some less than great food at dinner parties before, and I have never been disappointed by that. It is just a way to, like, show care and receive care in a way that I think, like, we all do need, like, more and more. There is something, like, psychological about being, like, somebody else was taking care of me tonight. Like, someone else was, like, doing a little something for me. And I think it’s, like, great to, like, give and receive that kind of, like, love and, like, nurturance amongst friends, you know? And like, I mean, I remember, like, my family doing it at home. My dad was, like, a big entertainer. It’s like, part of what I became, I think, particularly as we get older, the world wants us to be so much more separate, and, like, it is just, like, a perfect reason to, like, be together.
OLSON: I think there’s a lot of reasons, like you said, why having a dinner party is impractical. It doesn’t make sense in our, like, total human optimization culture to dedicate all this time to have friends over – you’re cleaning, you’re cooking. Maybe if you don’t cook, you’re figuring out where to order from and plating. Like, it doesn’t make sense all the time. But that is the beauty of it is that you chose to do it, and I think that when your friends come over, they really appreciate it. And you also have endless time to just be with each other. I think a night at Applebee’s with the girls is very fun. But after a couple hours, like, your internal clock is like, it’s time to move on. What’s our next stop or it’s time to go home.
And at a dinner party, if everyone’s enjoying themselves, it could be four or five hours. You kind of lose track of time, and I feel like it’s one of the rare experiences where I’m losing track of time, and I like that.
LUSE: Oh, I love that. Oh, I love that. I love that.
SCHLICHTE: And nobody post anything about it, you know what I mean? I think that de-escalates everything, you know?
LUSE: Oh, my God (laughter).
SCHLICHTE: Like, you don’t need to have…
LUSE: I didn’t even think about that (ph).
SCHLICHTE: If there was, like, a way to, like, Berghain the dinner party experience and, like, put…
LUSE: (Laughter).
SCHLICHTE: …Like, a sticker over everybody’s phone and be like, just eat the food with your mouth and tell me a story, I think that really would save us all.
LUSE: Oh, I love that. I love that so much. Let’s Berghain the dinner party.
(LAUGHTER)
LUSE: Gosh. Oh, my gosh. Garrett, Carly, I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you both so much.
OLSON: Thank you.
SCHLICHTE: Thank you so much.
LUSE: That was architecture and design journalist Carly Olson and professional chef and writer Garrett Schlichte. His book, “Dinner Party Stories” is coming out in 2027. And I’m going to put on my influencer hat for a second and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple or wherever you’re listening. Click Follow so you know the latest in culture while it’s still hot. This episode of IT’S BEEN A MINUTE was produced by…
COREY ANTONIO ROSE, BYLINE: Corey Antonio Rose.
LUSE: This episode was edited by…
NEENA PATHAK, BYLINE: Neena Pathak.
LUSE: Our supervising producer is…
BARTON GIRDWOOD, BYLINE: Barton Girdwood.
LUSE: Our executive producer is…
VERALYN WILLIAMS, BYLINE: Veralyn Williams.
LUSE: Our VP of programming is…
YOLANDA SANGWENI, BYLINE: Yolanda Sangweni.
LUSE: All right. That’s all for this episode of IT’S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR. I’m Brittany Luse. Talk soon.
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