[THEME MUSIC]
AISHA HARRIS: We’ve all been there. A major movie is mentioned. You shrug sheepishly, and someone says, I can’t believe you’ve never seen that. Look, nobody can see everything. This is just a part of life. But today, we make a dent in our own lists of classics we somehow had not yet gotten to. I’m Aisha Harris.
LINDA HOLMES: And I’m Linda Holmes. And today, on this encore episode of NPR’S Pop Culture Happy Hour, we’re talking about some of the classic movies we’ve never seen until now. Joining me and Aisha today is Andrew Limbong. He’s the host of NPR’s Book of the Day podcast and a reporter for The Culture Desk. Hey, Andrew.
ANDREW LIMBONG: Yo, yo yo. What’s up? What’s up?
HOLMES: You know, not too much, but we’re going to talk about some movies, if that’s OK.
LIMBONG: Yeah. Hell yeah. Let’s do it.
HOLMES: Also with us, we are always delighted to have our friend, writer Kat Chow. Welcome back, Kat.
KAT CHOW: Hi. So good to be on.
HOLMES: We asked everybody to bring a classic movie you recently saw for the first time. Now, when we say a classic, that can mean a lot of things– an iconic, award-winning performance, a director’s masterpiece, a cultural staple. That’s the gist. Let’s just get started. Andrew, I’m going to start with you. What did you bring?
LIMBONG: All right. So I picked the movie Erin Brockovich. I did this John Grisham profile. So I’ve been very interested in, like, legal thrillers and legal movies. Da, da, da. And then also, I recently just watched Notting Hill for the first time, and I was amazed. Well, I don’t know. Hold on. I don’t know if you’re going to like this take.
HOLMES: No, no.
[LAUGHTER]
LIMBONG: I was amazed at how absolutely smoked Julia Roberts got by Hugh Grant in that movie. She’s so, like, cold and unfeeling. And Hugh, like, my boy Hugh, my friend, my pal, he’s, like, firing on all cylinders with all this charisma and charm. I’m like, dude, this guy is awesome. He doesn’t really need this girl that’s, like, got a boyfriend. Like, we can just leave it. Anyway, I love Julia Roberts, and I’ve been meaning to, like, watch something where she’s, like, really on fire. And I remember Erin Brockovich came out in 2000. I remember being a kid, and people were, like, talking about it. All the grownups were like, oh, this and this, da, da, da. But I just never got around to seeing it. And she obviously won the Oscar. And I watched that speech again, and that was very cute and charming. People know what it’s about, right?
HOLMES: Yeah.
LIMBONG: It’s, like, the true story based off a woman that she becomes like a legal assistant who helps take down or helps almost take down– that’s a very important note –she helps almost take down this, like, evil company that’s polluting the city. It does feel like a movie written for Julia Roberts to just, like, dunk on people, and, like, that’s it. Like, everything else about the movie just doesn’t do anything other than aim towards that one task, which is fine if you just want to watch, like, highlight reels and clips and stuff like that. But, like, as a movie, I feel like it just like doesn’t congeal. And then I also think because of that, because of how it’s structured, Erin as a character is kind of annoying in a way that I’m not sure if the movie intends her to be annoying. Like, there’s one popular scene in particular where towards the back half of the movie, her boss realizes they’re in over their head. This is a lot bigger than they’re ready for. So he hooks up with this, like, hotshot, fancy pants law firm to, like, get some help. And I understand that she’s perturbed because she feels ownership over the case. She feels caring for these people. But, you know, another legal assistant in, and she says, hey, you’ve done a great job. I need to just, like– there’s some, like, gaps in the files. Like, you don’t have anybody’s phone number. And then Julia Roberts is like, well, whose phone number do you need? Insinuating that she has memorized 600 phone numbers.
[AUDIO PLAYBACK]
ERIN: Annabelle Daniel, 714-454-9346. Her parents are Ted and Rita. His brother Robbie and his wife Mae and their five children also lived on the plume. Their number is 454-9554. You want their diseases?
LEGAL ASSISTANT: OK, look, I think we got off on the wrong foot here.
ERIN: That’s all you got, lady. Two wrong feet and [BLEEP] ugly shoes.
[END PLAYBACK]
[LAUGHTER]
LIMBONG: Yeah, and that’s a great line. But, like, maybe you should write down their phone numbers. You know?
HOLMES: As somebody who is a recovering attorney, this does make me a little nuts because the idea that, like, well, if you need to do anything relating to this case with, like, what are there, 600 plaintiffs? You have to go ask Erin, and she’ll tell you their phone number. That’s not the way that you do this kind of work, I don’t think. It doesn’t actually make her look good in the ways that the movie seems to think it does.
HARRIS: But it’s cinema, and we always want that. We want that.
CHOW: Yeah, and it’s her quirk.
HOLMES: Of course. Of course.
HARRIS: But we want that quirk. We want that moment where someone just rattling something off and throwing darts at the opposition. That’s what we want, right?
LIMBONG: Well, they’re on the same side. That’s not the opposite–
HARRIS: Fair.
LIMBONG: There’s the other lawyers that she does dunk on, and then that feels really good. But, like, it’s also very telling that it’s, like, another woman that she’s dunking on her shoes, who’s just like, do you have this person’s phone number, please?
HOLMES: Yeah, exactly. Exactly, yeah. She has two wrong feet because she asked for somebody’s phone number to be–
LIMBONG: Yeah.
HOLMES: Yeah, it’s very strange. And it’s– if I can also say, it’s funny that you brought up– I’m not going to get into opinions about Notting Hill, which are very offensive. But–
[LAUGHTER]
HOLMES: –it’s funny that you brought up John Grisham because, to me, there’s a movie called The Rainmaker that has Matt Damon as a young attorney who’s doing a very similar case. And I think it works better because it is very clear at the beginning that he is completely out of his depth working on this case, as opposed to the whole thing being about, you know, that he’s incredibly amazing. Now, obviously, one is based on a true story, and I’m sure it’s very tempting to make it to kind of glorify Erin Brockovich, who, you know, is still around and participated in the publicity for the movie. So I like The Rainmaker better. And that’s based on a Grisham book. That’s why I linked it to Grisham.
LIMBONG: Yeah.
HOLMES: If you’re interested in this kind of story, I like The Rainmaker better.
CHOW: Oh, I do love a good legal drama like this.
HARRIS: I love this kind of movie.
HOLMES: Yeah, yeah. All right, well, Andrew watched Erin Brockovich. Kat, what did you watch?
CHOW: Ooh, I am so excited to talk about this pick. I watched Flower Drum Song, and Flower Drum Song is this iconic musical that was adapted from a novel by CY Lee, a Chinese American author. And Rodgers and Hammerstein made it into a Broadway musical. And then in 1961, it was released as a film. And in college, taking so many Asian American studies classes, you hear about a lot of these names, and you hear about these references. And you see a lot of beautiful still images of some of the actresses, like Nancy Kwan, posed in these iconic moments. So one of the big things about it is that it is one of the first major Hollywood studio films about and starring an Asian American cast. So if you think about that in the context of– I don’t know– the 1960s, 1961 in particular, what else came out in that year? Breakfast at Tiffany’s with Mickey Rooney playing Mr. Yunioshi. It’s really interesting to me what sticks in the memory. So I remember Breakfast at Tiffany’s. I remember watching Mr. Yunioshi as a little kid and feeling just the little icks. But I had never seen Flower Drum Song, and I didn’t even know the plot of it. And the plot is a young woman arrives in San Francisco, Chinatown, from Hong Kong, and this movie is set in the 1950s, before the United States allowed legal immigration from China. And so there’s just a lot of history baked in, and there’s a lot going on in this movie. And I could critique it, you know, based on the accuracy or stereotypes of either women or Chinese Americans, but I feel like that’s– I don’t know. You know, looking back on a classic movie from the ’50s, ’60s, it just doesn’t really feel, I guess, fair or a useful exercise. But watching it, it was really– just it was interesting in the context of it. There’s a clip that I wanted to play that is really about the, I guess, illegal immigration, so to speak. And we have the main character, the young protagonist, Mei Li, who is in this nightclub with her father, and she’s having a conversation with this guy named Sammy Fong, who is supposed to be sort of the rakish nightclub owner, and he’s played by Jack Soo, who would kind of go on to become a really iconic Asian American actor.
[AUDIO PLAYBACK]
SAMMY FONG: Why didn’t you let me know you were coming?
MEI LI’S FATHER: We were unable to let anyone know.
MEI LI: We were smuggled ashore tonight.
FONG: Smuggled? You mean you got in illegally?
LI: If we came here under the quota, it would take 10 years, and I would be too old to get married.
SAMMYFONG: I’m a dead duck, Peking style.
[END PLAYBACK]
CHOW: So there’s a lot to unpack just in that one exchange– the artificial accent, the Peking duck reference. Of course, even though this was based off of a novel by a Chinese American, Chinese immigrant writer, it was written and produced by a bunch of white men in the ’60s, ’50s. But for me, hearing that, talking about the quota, talking about who was allowed in the country or not, and that just, to me, seemed really fascinating, just in the context of what was happening in the political moments of the ’60s. So I think some of you have also watched the movie. Are there any scenes or memories of it that really jump out?
HARRIS: Oh, man. I mean, I probably– I watched it in high school, I think. I taped it off of TCM. [LAUGHS] And that’s the only time I’ve seen it. But I think my first introduction to it was actually, before I’d even seen the movie, I got this, like, compilation of Broadway songs. And so–
CHOW: Yeah.
HARRIS: –I heard “I Enjoy Being a Girl”–
CHOW: Yes!
HARRIS: –which is, like– I think that’s, like, the sort of signature song from that show, which, like, doesn’t really have anything to do with Asian identity. It’s just like a very 1950s, ’60s song about being a woman. And–
CHOW: I’m a strictly– a female-female. Yeah.
HARRIS: Female-female, yeah, and someone who likes lace and pearls and stuff like that. It’s like almost “Gentlemen Prefer Blondes” kind of song.
CHOW: Right, yeah.
HARRIS: It think when I watched it in high school, it did not have any of sort of the context of, like, everything you’re talking about in terms of immigration and whatnot that I have now. So it is something that I think is– I would love to revisit.
CHOW: So this movie also– James Shigeta, who, very hunky, very, very hunky in this movie, he plays sort of one of the people in the love quadrangle, if I can call it that. And he sort of plays this not clueless but, you know, a naive, young, college-aged man who is sort of choosing between a bunch of the different women, who to marry. And seeing him sing– and then, also, he didn’t actually dance, but there are a couple of numbers that are really beautiful that he appeared in, one with an actress named Reiko Sato. She played a character named Helen Chao. And there’s this dream sequence that is so beautiful because Reiko Sato and Nancy Kwan are both actresses who have professional ballet training. And so just seeing them in this, you know, just aside from all the political analysis that you can do, I found those images and those performances lovely.
LIMBONG: Kat, that song that you mentioned, “Love Looks Away,” that Helen sings, she plays the sort of, like, ducky, friend-zoned character, right? She’s, like, in love with the main lead, Ta, but he doesn’t seem to notice her. That song she sings is so beautiful.
CHOW: Yes.
[AUDIO PLAYBACK]
HELEN CHAO: (SINGING) Look away, look away Look away from me
[END PLAYBACK]
LIMBONG: And it’s clearly, like, the standout.
CHOW: There’s so much to unpack with Flower Drum Song. I feel like this could be an entire– I don’t know– college course.
HOLMES: Yeah. And I think the thing that’s interesting to me is that– and I’ve been trying to figure out how to say this without implying that, like, Rodgers and Hammerstein were progressive, because that’s not what I’m saying, particularly relative to now. But in the context of how much institutional racism there is in film and theater now, let alone then, there are interesting, little kind of tendrils in several of the things that they did that are sort of trying to at least take an interest in people’s different–
CHOW: Yeah.
HOLMES: –experiences, even though it often is executed in this extremely clumsy and, like, also problematic way. But that’s true of South Pacific. It’s true of The King and I. There’s an effort to at least, like, look at experiences as very human, but it still comes out kind of jumbly. So it’s interesting because I’ve seen a bunch of the other Rodgers and Hammerstein stuff, but I haven’t seen this. And this makes me definitely want to go and watch it.
CHOW: Yeah, I agree, Linda. I think that’s a really good way of putting it.
HOLMES: All right. So that is Flower Drum Song. Thank you very much, Kat Chow. Aisha, what did you bring?
HARRIS: Well, I brought a movie that is such a sort of cultural icon that it’s one of those movies that just has kind of– if you haven’t seen it or if you haven’t seen it in a while, it’s just kind of been dispersed and taken on a life of its own. And that is Enter the Dragon, of course, the Bruce Lee classic film, and also the last completed before his death. And he actually did not even get to live to see the release of this movie. Now, I have to– [LAUGHS] I have to admit that my first introduction to Bruce Lee is very embarrassing, a little racist. It was on the classic ’90s TV sitcom Family Matters. Now, if you recall, Family Matters, Steve Urkel, played by Jaleel White, would have this, like, machine that he created, and he would turn into various– he’d turn into the suave Stefan, he’d turn into Elvis, and then he’d turn into Bruce Lee. And basically, he’d just slap a wig on and, like, a martial arts outfit, and then he’d make these awful sounds that were supposed to sound like Bruce Lee. And he was talking in a, quote unquote, “Bruce Lee/Asian” accent. So embarrassing, but that was my first introduction.
CHOW: I completely forgot about this. Yeah.
HARRIS: Oh, yes. Yes, this was a whole thing.
CHOW: I remember this now.
HARRIS: So for years, like, as a kid, that was, like, my introduction to Bruce Lee. Finally, in 2023, I had the opportunity to go to a 50th anniversary screening at the TCM Film Festival. It included a introduction conversation between Michael Allin, the screenwriter, and the, you know, legendary RZA, and in conversation. And having seeing this movie for the first time and on the big screen really showed to me why this movie is considered a classic, why it really kind of changed the game for– and the way Bruce Lee’s other movies did as well– changed the game for, like, what art and what fighting in art can look like on screen. And so the movie, the basic plot is that Bruce Lee plays Lee, a martial arts instructor at the Shaolin Temple. And he’s hired to help take down this sex- and drug-trafficking crime lord named Han, played by Shih Kien. There’s not a ton of plot going on here, but you’ve got, like, John Saxon, who you would later see in Nightmare on Elm Street playing Roper, and Jim Kelly playing Williams. They’re these, like, martial artists who are also in a competition on this island that Han owns. And so Lee goes to this island and to attend the martial arts tournament. And then, you know, everything goes down. And the way that this movie just, like, has clearly kind of seeped into the cultural consciousness– the music by Lalo Schifrin is just kind of fantastic and sets the mood. You’ve got all this cross-cultural pollination going on here because you’ve got Black martial artists, and you’ve got Jim Kelly, who’s kind of, like, this Black martial arts hero on screen. This is, like, his introduction in the film world after being, like, an athlete and a student of martial arts. And it’s just really, really fascinating to finally see Bruce Lee, like, in action, like, just seeing his actual work. And I love the mirror scene towards the end, where Han and him are in the showdown. This is just, like, pure cinema. They’re in a wall– a room that is just a wall of mirrors, and watching their bodies move within these mirrors and the way they’re, like, cut up into little pieces. And there’s a moment that I want to play where you hear the voice of Shaolin abbot, Lee’s instructor, that we heard earlier in the scene kind of come back to him in the middle of this fight, reminding him what he needs to do when he is in fight mode.
[AUDIO PLAYBACK]
ABBOT: The enemy has only images and illusions behind which he hides his true motives. Destroy the image, and you will break the enemy.
[END PLAYBACK]
HARRIS: And what does he do? He breaks part of the glass, and then everything becomes even more fractured, and then it disorients Han. And then he defeats him. Just the chemistry, the movement of Bruce Lee’s body. I also want to really quickly quote Jeff Chang, who wrote a really smart piece about Bruce Lee’s career for Criterion when they released a boxset of his movies. And he says, you know, “By comparison, American fight scenes of the time that didn’t involve bullets seem slow, clumsy, and over too soon. Lee introduced tempo, velocity, and realism.” And that’s so true. Like, when I look at this, and when you think about what sort of, at the time, other movies were doing, they didn’t look like this. And now we take it for granted. Like, all the John Wicks of the world and Chuck Norris– Chuck Norris was also someone who starred in a movie with Bruce Lee– like, you see the sort of descendance. And it’s really fun to just be able to, like, go back and see the origins, like, unfiltered, without all of the, you know– the extra stuff. Bruce Lee was– he was really cool. And this movie is really cool.
CHOW: He was so cool. Yeah.
LIMBONG: You know, it’s funny, when you talk about, like, seeing things not in, like, a clip reel, like, not at the end of Babylon, where, like, the beauty of film is shown together, I’ve seen that shot of Bruce Lee, like, stepping on that one dude and killing him, like, plenty of times, just that shot. And then you look at it on his face. But within the context of the movie, he’s, like, acting there.
CHOW: Yeah.
LIMBONG: He’s not just doing, like, a cool karate face. There’s regret. There’s, like, sadness. There’s anger, all of that stuff. Because he doesn’t want to kill. The backstory is he doesn’t really want to kill the guy, but the guy, like, keeps trying to hit him. And, you know, he was responsible for the death of his– was it his sister?
HARRIS: Yeah, his sister.
LIMBONG: There’s so much that I’d never– I’d– like, you know, like you, I’ve just seen, like–
HARRIS: Yeah.
LIMBONG: –you know, seen the faces and the voices or whatever. And so just this exercise is really fun, seeing the source material for all this stuff and the depth of it all.
HARRIS: Yeah.
HOLMES: Kind of feel like with Andrew, what Andrew’s saying, I feel like I’ve seen a lot of it, but I don’t think I’ve ever actually watched the whole thing. So this is definitely a good reminder to get out there and watch it. So that is Enter the Dragon. Thank you very much, Aisha. I’m going to go out with a bang. I am copping to a pretty significant gap in my knowledge that I only recently resolved. I watched a little boxing movie called Raging Bull, which came out in 1980, directed by Martin Scorsese. You know, it’s about boxer Jake LaMotta, who is played, of course, by Robert De Niro in one of the kind of formative “who we think Robert De Niro is” performances, not the first. But Joe Pesci plays his brother. And I think it’s the kind of Joe Pesci performance that really kind of people chased for many years, trying to kind of capture what is so special about him in this movie. You know, I sat and I thought, why did it take me so long to watch this movie? I mean, there are people where this is one or two on their list of the best movies of all time. Why did it take me so long to watch this movie? I think that first of all, I do not care about boxing. I think I passed a point in my life when I stopped seeking out sort of tortured, violent man, “let’s understand his interiority better.” With all that said, listen, this might surprise you, but it’s a very good movie.
HARRIS: Wow.
[LAUGHTER]
HOLMES: I did not particularly find this story compelling, particularly. I think a lot of this is just kind of a nasty, abusive man being abusive over and over again. And yes, he’s in pain, but who isn’t? So the story, I don’t really care about. But the filmmaking is astonishing. I think the boxing sequences are so much more than so many sports sequences are, let alone boxing sequences. They are so interestingly shot and, of course, edited. It’s maybe, like, the best edited movie I have ever seen, probably.
HARRIS: Yeah.
CHOW: Oh, wow.
HARRIS: I would agree.
CHOW: That is a huge compliment, Linda.
HOLMES: I mean, it feels ridiculous to say things like, it’s just incredibly carefully, lovingly made. It’s in black and white. The black-and-white photography is stunning. I don’t always care about movies that are based on people’s memoirs, where the person is listed–
CHOW: Right.
HOLMES: –as a consultant because you get a lot of– you know, that can go in a lot of ways.
CHOW: A little glorified maybe.
HOLMES: I am a big– such a fan of Scorsese personally. And he has such fondness for kinds of stories I don’t care about, which makes me so sad, because I’m such an admirer of him as a person. Shouts to the editing from Thelma Schoonmaker, who I think has been a key part of Scorsese’s success, obviously. But this is a good movie. And I was really glad I saw it. Listen, you should see it. 1980, called Raging Bull.
HARRIS: Wow.
HOLMES: It’s out there.
HARRIS: I love it. I own this on DVD. I– it is probably the only sports movie that I own. I’m not a sports person. I’m definitely not a boxing person. And every so often, aside from Creed–
CHOW: Love Creed.
HARRIS: –for me, it’s less about the boxing scenes than it is about everything else. And, you know, I think that every boxing movie pales in comparison to this one when it comes to how those scenes are filmed. And you can see other movies–
CHOW: Wow.
HARRIS: –try to emulate it, but, like, nothing that I’ve seen has come even close to those moments in the ring.
CHOW: Oh, my gosh, this is huge. So I mean, I’m not a sports person, but I do actually love boxing movies and movies that have sort of the, like, Rocky setup, you know, like, the training scenes and whatever. And so this? This is something that I think I would enjoy watching. So now I’m going to watch it. I’m going to take a break from–
HOLMES: It does not have a Rocky setup. I will say that. In terms of triumph–
HARRIS: The opposite of Rocky.
HOLMES: –you’re not going to find a satisfying montage.
LIMBONG: There’s no montage, yeah.
HOLMES: There’s no– no. Scorsese just is incredibly good in this film at bringing you how painful and brutal these fights are, which you think you know, and then you watch it, and you’re like, oh, yeah, this is actually just people getting punched in the face over and over and over again until they are–
CHOW: Yeah, yeah.
HOLMES: –bleeding and their eye’s swollen shut. It’s–
HARRIS: The American way.
CHOW: [LAUGHS]
LIMBONG: Yeah.
HOLMES: So that is Raging Bull, of course. And we do want to know, what classic movies have you recently watched for the first time? Find us at facebook.com/pchh. That brings us to the end of our show. Kat Chow, Andrew Limbong, Aisha Harris, thank you so much for being here.
HARRIS: Thank you.
LIMBONG: Thank you.
CHOW: Thank you.
HOLMES: This episode is produced by Liz Metzger and edited by Mike Katzif. Our supervising producer is Jessica Reedy. Research was performed by Greta Pittenger. And Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thank you all for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I’m Linda Holmes. And we’ll see you all next time.
[THEME MUSIC]
Copyright © 2026 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.
Accuracy and availability of NPR transcripts may vary. Transcript text may be revised to correct errors or match updates to audio. Audio on npr.org may be edited after its original broadcast or publication. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
